1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,120 In this episode of American Greed, John Rogers is amassing one of the biggest 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,440 and most impressive photo archive collections in the world. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,640 These archives are extremely rare. They're extremely valuable. And we're 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,500 obtain priceless images. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,120 And that's what we do. 6 00:00:17,380 --> 00:00:21,840 But the business he claims is worth $32 million is rooted in fraud. 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,680 With John Rogers, you can't believe anything he says. 8 00:00:24,980 --> 00:00:27,480 And you can't believe what he shows you either. Nothing. 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,660 Because most of it was... 10 00:00:30,830 --> 00:00:35,170 Investors are duped into sending him millions of dollars based on counterfeit 11 00:00:35,170 --> 00:00:39,610 pieces of sports memorabilia. Could be card collections, could be trophies, 12 00:00:39,610 --> 00:00:41,350 could be signed baseball bats. 13 00:00:41,650 --> 00:00:42,650 It could be anything. 14 00:00:43,070 --> 00:00:46,130 But what it adds up to is stacks and stacks of cash. 15 00:00:47,030 --> 00:00:50,650 American Greed has an exclusive prison interview with John Rogers. 16 00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:54,210 I mean, I could have sold kilos of cocaine, I would have made less money. 17 00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:57,670 And later... We are living in perilous times. 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,940 Dr. Larry Bates may sell books and DVDs preaching the value of silver and gold. 19 00:01:03,220 --> 00:01:06,580 The Bible is very clear. It says if you don't work, you don't eat. But his 20 00:01:06,580 --> 00:01:08,420 clients are the ones in peril. 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,620 Your money was gone. As soon as it made it to him, it was gone. 22 00:01:12,860 --> 00:01:17,440 As the walls close in, feds are left to wonder, what are they hiding? 23 00:01:32,270 --> 00:01:38,310 In March 2014, the FBI records a conversation between Chicago sports 24 00:01:38,310 --> 00:01:41,970 dealer Doug Allen and a Little Rock entrepreneur, John Rogers. 25 00:01:42,370 --> 00:01:46,130 As long as you don't say to me that you were shipping me off, you never heard of 26 00:01:46,130 --> 00:01:47,210 John. John? 27 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,540 Doug Allen is under indictment for rigging memorabilia auctions. And he 28 00:01:55,540 --> 00:01:58,500 he's giving up his friend and partner, John Rogers, to the FBI. 29 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,400 But on this day, Rogers is the one wearing the wire. 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,120 Doug did something unforgivable to me. John Rogers speaks to American Greed 31 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:08,220 prison in Arkansas. 32 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,440 You don't want to rat. People like that, they ought to be shot, I think. 33 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:15,100 But I took an exception for Doug Allen. I said, you know what? 34 00:02:15,380 --> 00:02:16,440 This scumbag. 35 00:02:28,740 --> 00:02:33,200 John Rogers did not expect his career to end up this way. 36 00:02:46,190 --> 00:02:48,410 Chicago Daily News, Chicago Sun -Times. 37 00:02:48,670 --> 00:02:52,710 We'd like to buy every newspaper in the country is our goal. 38 00:02:53,030 --> 00:02:55,650 Well, you know, John, for us, kind of came out of nowhere. 39 00:02:56,050 --> 00:03:00,530 George Walden reports for the magazine Arkansas Business and covers the 40 00:03:00,530 --> 00:03:05,710 improbable rise of John Rogers from a kid collecting baseball cards to a titan 41 00:03:05,710 --> 00:03:06,529 of business. 42 00:03:06,530 --> 00:03:10,170 Like a lot of boys did growing up, you know, you buy a pack of baseball cards 43 00:03:10,170 --> 00:03:11,310 and you get a stick of gum. 44 00:03:11,930 --> 00:03:15,450 and collect the cards. He just stayed with it and started trading and wheeling 45 00:03:15,450 --> 00:03:19,090 and dealing. And I think he started eventually getting into memorabilia. 46 00:03:19,090 --> 00:03:23,330 the years, Rogers brings in millions of dollars trading collectibles as the 47 00:03:23,330 --> 00:03:24,410 industry explodes. 48 00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:25,910 But that's only the beginning. 49 00:03:26,150 --> 00:03:30,550 Rogers is focused on creating the largest photo archive in the world. 50 00:03:30,850 --> 00:03:33,490 He was one of the first people to realize the value. 51 00:03:33,930 --> 00:03:35,450 in original photos. 52 00:03:35,710 --> 00:03:40,590 These archives are extremely rare, they're extremely valuable, and we're 53 00:03:40,590 --> 00:03:44,070 obtain priceless images, and that's what we do. 54 00:03:44,310 --> 00:03:49,010 John Rogers goes across the country pursuing old photo archives from some of 55 00:03:49,010 --> 00:03:53,870 biggest newspapers in the world, offering to turn celluloid collecting 56 00:03:53,870 --> 00:03:56,050 digital images that can print cash. 57 00:03:56,510 --> 00:04:00,490 His idea was, you know, these are undervalued assets, and the newspapers 58 00:04:00,510 --> 00:04:02,730 you know, looking, what do we do with all these photos? 59 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,540 tons and tons of photos, but we're not making any money with them. 60 00:04:06,860 --> 00:04:11,140 And at some point it clicked with him that, hey, why don't I work out a deal 61 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:16,060 where I'll take your collection on and digitize it, put metadata on it, make a 62 00:04:16,060 --> 00:04:20,380 searchable, digitized library for you. And so he was going out and sort of 63 00:04:20,380 --> 00:04:23,500 rescuing these historic treasures is how he pitched it to a lot of people. 64 00:04:23,950 --> 00:04:29,750 So his plan was to amass the largest private photo collection and then use it 65 00:04:29,750 --> 00:04:33,870 a revenue stream in the future by licensing these photos, making them 66 00:04:33,870 --> 00:04:37,950 to the different newspapers, sharing the digital images with them. He would sell 67 00:04:37,950 --> 00:04:41,870 the originals. He would maintain digital images as well, and they would share in 68 00:04:41,870 --> 00:04:45,590 the future revenue from the digital rights on each one of those photos that 69 00:04:45,590 --> 00:04:48,750 sold. Saving America's photographic history, which we did. 70 00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:51,890 Newspapers were hemorrhaging fashion in 08 and 09. 71 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,180 They were throwing their archives away. They were throwing negatives away. 72 00:04:55,780 --> 00:04:59,600 And we digitized some of the nation's largest archives, and we did them 73 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,600 perfectly. 74 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,720 Rogers finds that there's money to be made in some of the most famous and 75 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,460 private collections as well. 76 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:13,780 Yes. This is my grandfather with Jeff Keith and Bob Feller, and this picture 77 00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:14,960 one of my favorites of him. 78 00:05:15,260 --> 00:05:21,320 He looks so handsome in his suit. In 1929, Debbie Miller's grandfather, 79 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,880 Brace, began taking photos at Chicago's Wrigley Field and Comiskey Park. 80 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,380 And he would continue to do so for more than 60 years. 81 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:34,860 He loved baseball. It was his whole life. I mean, everything was baseball. 82 00:05:34,860 --> 00:05:38,760 the years, Brace amasses one of the most remarkable baseball photo collections 83 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:39,780 in the world. 84 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,140 It's Ernie Banks' first day as a ballplayer. 85 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:45,010 They're really few. 86 00:05:45,250 --> 00:05:50,090 It's just one of many incredible moments in baseball history that Brace managed 87 00:05:50,090 --> 00:05:55,730 to capture. As Brace enters his 80s, his eyesight begins to fail, and he retires 88 00:05:55,730 --> 00:06:00,510 in 1994 after producing approximately 1 .2 million images. 89 00:06:00,910 --> 00:06:04,830 He hands over his collection to his daughter Mary, and with her niece 90 00:06:04,970 --> 00:06:08,890 they run the business of selling off prints to interested parties. 91 00:06:09,270 --> 00:06:11,870 One interested party is John Rogers. 92 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:17,040 Around 2005, he started ordering photos. 93 00:06:17,260 --> 00:06:20,700 He would call up and say, well, I need everything you have on Ernie Banks. 94 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,500 So he would call and he would talk to my aunt. I can't believe this, you know, a 95 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:29,420 mass collection. And, you know, it's so nice that you have this to preserve 96 00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:35,020 baseball. And he had such a love of baseball, he would say. But preserving 97 00:06:35,020 --> 00:06:38,440 images is getting increasingly difficult for Brace's family. 98 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,700 They start to disintegrate. 99 00:06:41,050 --> 00:06:46,270 So that's kind of what was happening near the end here. Some of them were 75, 100 00:06:46,610 --> 00:06:47,610 100 years old. 101 00:06:47,650 --> 00:06:52,230 In the digital age, Miller and her Aunt Mary decide to try to preserve the 102 00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:54,870 collection by digitizing the photos themselves. 103 00:06:55,650 --> 00:06:58,430 They quickly learn that it's a Herculean task. 104 00:06:59,150 --> 00:07:04,210 There were 57 file drawers, three feet deep, and they had two rows to each file 105 00:07:04,210 --> 00:07:07,570 cabinet. We went through four drawers out of 57. 106 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,220 It took us three years, and we saw what a big test this was going to end up to 107 00:07:13,220 --> 00:07:15,980 be. John Rogers has a solution. 108 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,200 He offers $1 ,350 ,000 for the collection. 109 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:25,180 He will digitize all the images and provide digital copies to the family. 110 00:07:25,420 --> 00:07:28,720 In return, Rogers will own the copyrights of the photos. 111 00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:34,120 Most important to the family, however, is that George Brace's legacy is kept 112 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,120 intact. 113 00:07:35,539 --> 00:07:38,860 Still, parting with the collection is an agonizing decision. 114 00:07:39,780 --> 00:07:43,400 It was sad to see them go, but we knew what had to be done. 115 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,840 It costs millions of dollars to run the size of operation Rodgers is trying to 116 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,280 create, but his reputation is on the rise. 117 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,240 There are people out there willing to invest, including fellow collectors. 118 00:07:55,740 --> 00:08:00,640 The Home Run King himself, Hank Aaron, and this is a very special bat to me 119 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,720 because it is from his rookie year. 120 00:08:03,260 --> 00:08:06,420 Getting involved in collecting, it started with my father. My father got my 121 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:08,020 brother, Steve, and myself involved. 122 00:08:08,420 --> 00:08:12,820 And my dad wanted to teach us how to respect money and bond together. 123 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:17,520 Over 20 years, George Dimo says his family has collected more than 150 game 124 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:22,260 -used bats and scores of other autographed photos and memorabilia by 125 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:24,520 most famous players in baseball history. 126 00:08:25,220 --> 00:08:28,340 Oh, we loved it. It's not even liking. We loved it. We got to go to baseball 127 00:08:28,340 --> 00:08:31,200 games. We got to hang out with my father. I mean, we got extremely lucky 128 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,990 life. The way the sports media world went up in value, none of us were 129 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:39,169 it, could not afford to collect right now with the stuff that we have. 130 00:08:39,530 --> 00:08:40,970 But John Rogers can. 131 00:08:41,530 --> 00:08:45,510 When Demos is first introduced to Rogers, he doesn't even know Rogers is a 132 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:49,470 collector. But he does know that Rogers is attempting to build a massive photo 133 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:51,610 archive business, and he's intrigued. 134 00:08:52,050 --> 00:08:57,070 In 2013, he agrees to give the business a loan and is paid back with interest 135 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,070 just as planned. 136 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,500 Rogers checks to see if he'd be interested in going further. 137 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,480 He's like, hey, what do you think? Do you think everything's going well? I 138 00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:09,200 yeah, I said everything's going great. He's like, well, since this is going so 139 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,940 well, would you like I'll pay someone this off and we'll do another deal? The 140 00:09:12,940 --> 00:09:17,900 deals are often fast and loose, documented only by text messages and e 141 00:09:17,900 --> 00:09:19,340 sent between the two parties. 142 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:23,180 But what the deals lack in documentation, they make up for in 143 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,180 All of the loans are backed up by Rogers' extensive memorabilia collection 144 00:09:28,180 --> 00:09:29,620 photo archive as collateral. 145 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:34,060 I did eight deals with him, and he kept rolling them and rolling them, and I 146 00:09:34,060 --> 00:09:35,460 never had a check that didn't cash. 147 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,800 When American Greed returned, there's just one little problem. 148 00:09:40,060 --> 00:09:44,660 What John Rogers offers as collateral isn't worth the cardboard it's printed 149 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,740 And the suspicion is he just grew more bold and bold over time when he was 150 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:50,740 getting away with it. 151 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,840 By the end of 2013, George Demas hands over nearly a million dollars in loans 152 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,760 and investments to John Rogers' photo archive business. 153 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,280 But despite his seeming success, Demas has his suspicions. 154 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:17,120 I was trying to get my head around how this much income was coming in from 155 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,320 photographs. I couldn't get my head around it, so I asked him if I could fly 156 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:26,280 and see his operation, and he said, yeah, you know, open arms. 157 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,980 First stop, the Rogers Photo Archives. 158 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,480 where Demas sees dozens of employees working away. 159 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,720 The next stop, Rogers' home, is even more impressive. 160 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,360 And it was something on the order of, you know, 12 ,000 plus square feet. 161 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,720 was a hidden vault, I'm told, in the basement where he kept his personal 162 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,780 collection of valuable sports memorabilia. 163 00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:55,240 The backyard had a designer pool with what people described as a mini version 164 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,700 the Playboy Grotto. 165 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,000 But Demas should trust his instincts. 166 00:10:59,550 --> 00:11:03,830 Selling photos doesn't make this kind of money, at least not the way Rogers does 167 00:11:03,830 --> 00:11:08,190 it. As we sort of figured out later, he was, you know, spinning straw into gold 168 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:11,910 because he really wasn't making any money at all. He was losing money, and 169 00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:15,490 only way he was keeping it afloat was through investment and loans through 170 00:11:15,490 --> 00:11:21,950 banks. I was, for one, a cocaine addict at the time. Not an excuse. I met a lot 171 00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:24,710 of addicts in rehab that didn't become con artists, criminals. 172 00:11:25,130 --> 00:11:27,210 Another painful part of the story, but... 173 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:38,180 The entire company, in fact all of John Rogers' wealth, is based in fraud. 174 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,100 They suspect he was probably doing counterfeiting as far back as the 90s. 175 00:11:43,310 --> 00:11:47,810 Could be card collections, could be trophies, could be signed baseball bats 176 00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:50,650 famous ballplayers. It could be any number of things. 177 00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:54,070 According to John Rogers, it goes back further than that. 178 00:11:54,330 --> 00:11:59,330 Probably around 13 is when I became a forger. I started off as fun, and I 179 00:11:59,330 --> 00:12:02,790 learned pretty quickly it was a natural talent I had. Did Babe Ruth, he did Ty 180 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:06,430 Cobb. I believe probably one of his favorites was Mickey Mantle. He did 181 00:12:06,430 --> 00:12:08,630 presidents. We found some JFK stuff. 182 00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:12,270 He did actors. He did actresses. Marilyn Monroe we found. 183 00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:13,750 He did the Beatles. 184 00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:18,290 It was nothing for me. When Muhammad Ali died, I sat down and took 10 ,000 185 00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:21,990 Muhammad Ali photos and lithographs. I had a talent. 186 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:26,910 Once by God, once by the devil, whoever gave it to me, I was born with it. I 187 00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:29,390 could create millions of dollars with my hands and my brain. 188 00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:34,150 And I started leaning on the forgeries and the fake items even heavier to get 189 00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:35,150 the deals done. 190 00:12:35,390 --> 00:12:39,930 John Rogers trades in other people's names over and over again with unwitting 191 00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:40,930 investors. 192 00:12:41,270 --> 00:12:42,270 There's an old saying. 193 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,180 Believe nothing what he tells you and half of what he shows you. 194 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,140 With John Rogers in this case, you can't believe anything he says. 195 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,800 And you can't believe what he shows you either. 196 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,320 Nothing. Because most of it was bogus. 197 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,120 Investors were giving him millions of dollars. 198 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:01,820 Banks were giving him loans. 199 00:13:02,380 --> 00:13:06,720 All of it was based on, hey, I'm holding all of these sports memorabilia pieces. 200 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,300 It's in my safe. 201 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:11,400 You can come check it out. They did come check it out. 202 00:13:11,770 --> 00:13:13,010 The problem was it was fake. 203 00:13:13,310 --> 00:13:17,010 It was like printing money, basically. I mean, I could have sold kilos of 204 00:13:17,010 --> 00:13:18,330 cocaine, I would have made less money. 205 00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:24,370 When American Greed returns, John Rogers' fraud comes to light, and it's 206 00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:26,330 investors who are overexposed. 207 00:13:26,690 --> 00:13:31,210 His world started crumbling around him, and people were starting to talk more 208 00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:33,390 and more like, oh, it's going to get worse before it gets better. 209 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,240 In late 2013, after George Demas has loaned or invested hundreds of thousands 210 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:54,020 dollars with John Rogers' photo archive business, Rogers reaches out for one 211 00:13:54,020 --> 00:13:57,960 more deal. But this time, it's for Demas' most prized possession. 212 00:13:58,420 --> 00:14:03,040 This is the bat that Babe Ruth used to hit the first home run out of Yankee 213 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,820 Stadium in 1924 off Hall of Fame pitcher Walter Johnson. 214 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,560 He's like, you know, I really want to get a nice piece of baseball mail to be 215 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:12,459 my collection. 216 00:14:12,460 --> 00:14:15,060 Would you be willing to part with your Babe Ruth bat? 217 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:20,080 I said, that's like the holy grail of my collection. That was meant to help my 218 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,880 kids out throughout college and throughout their life, not just mine. 219 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,080 sell that bat, he's like, well, if I came to a deal with you for you and your 220 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,700 brother to be able to accomplish that, would you part with that? I said, I 221 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:31,539 listen to anything. 222 00:14:31,540 --> 00:14:32,900 Rogers offers a deal. 223 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,040 It was $3 million in addition. 224 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,960 Until we pass away, we would get residual income off the newspaper for 225 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:40,960 archives. 226 00:14:41,119 --> 00:14:45,280 Rogers is supposed to hold on to the prized baseball bat until his loan to 227 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,239 is paid off. 228 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,980 But agreements don't mean much to John Rogers. 229 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,240 He gives me a phone call and says, hey, I got a really big offer on this bat and 230 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,140 I would like to sell it. Help me out. It's like you can't sell it. I get my 231 00:14:57,140 --> 00:15:01,320 money back. But Rogers needs the cash to keep the business afloat. So he 232 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,220 arranges to sell the bat without Demas's knowledge for much less than the 233 00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:06,680 millions it's actually worth. 234 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,500 Not too many people can write a check for $750 ,000. 235 00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:13,430 And he needed the money like yesterday. So obviously the heat was coming on and 236 00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:16,010 he had to know about it. The heat is on. 237 00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:20,590 The Department of Justice has had Rogers under investigation for a few years 238 00:15:20,590 --> 00:15:26,110 now. And in 2014, they have what they need to move forward, including a 239 00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:27,270 cooperating witness. 240 00:15:27,730 --> 00:15:32,230 One of the turning points was an individual named Doug Allen who came to 241 00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:36,830 after being charged in his own fraud case and said, John Rogers is committing 242 00:15:36,830 --> 00:15:39,430 fraud. Doug Allen agreed to cooperate with the government. 243 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,480 and the FBI in their investigation. 244 00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:47,500 Doug Allen is under indictment for his time at Mastro Auctions, Chicago -based 245 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:52,680 sports memorabilia auction house previously featured on American Greed. 246 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,780 partner in the company, he is accused by the government of artificially raising 247 00:15:56,780 --> 00:15:58,940 prices of products placed in auction. 248 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,940 As a sports memorabilia enthusiast, he knows John Rogers well. 249 00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:06,320 Reluctantly, he agreed to cooperate. 250 00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:07,920 And as he began... 251 00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:15,300 doing this, I personally was having some feelings like maybe he wasn't fully 252 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:16,700 on board with Team America. 253 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,580 While telling the FBI that he's doing what he can to corral John Rogers, Allen 254 00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:24,900 is actually alerting Rogers about the FBI's investigation. 255 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,940 Doug Allen was the one who tipped John off that the FBI was getting ready to 256 00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:33,200 raid his office. Then John turned the tables and told the FBI that, hey, by 257 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,180 way, Doug Allen told me you guys... 258 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,660 We're going to be right in my office. And at that point, I guess it was every 259 00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:43,620 criminal for themselves, and John turned it on him. With no honor among thieves, 260 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:49,240 Rogers calls FBI agent Brian Busocas out of the blue and rats out Doug Allen for 261 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,260 giving him the heads up. 262 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:53,440 I just remember the first words, Brian, this is John Rogers here. 263 00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:58,480 And then went on to tell me all about Doug's being a double agent. He had done 264 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,020 some stuff, but he didn't want to be a part of what Doug was doing. 265 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,360 Doug Allen. 266 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,480 He comes to me after he wears a wire in front of me and my wife at the time. 267 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,859 And he does another unforgivable thing. He tells me he wore a wire, which puts 268 00:17:09,859 --> 00:17:12,800 me in a horrible position. Now I'm definitely going to get charged with 269 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:13,800 obstruction of justice. 270 00:17:13,859 --> 00:17:17,180 So we self -reported it. My attorney said, you've got to do it. You don't 271 00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:18,019 another choice. 272 00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:21,619 And in the end, I was glad we did it. Rogers admits to the government that he 273 00:17:21,619 --> 00:17:26,660 forged an unknowable amount of memorabilia items and used them to 274 00:17:26,660 --> 00:17:28,079 from banks and investors. 275 00:17:28,860 --> 00:17:32,620 One of the first things he wanted to do is he said, I will wear a recording 276 00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:37,920 device for you and I will record Doug Allen telling me about how he tipped me 277 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:43,160 off. And he did that very thing. He met with Doug Allen and they recorded the 278 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,320 conversation where Doug Allen told John Rogers, don't tell anybody that I told 279 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,520 you that the feds were coming. 280 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,240 I know for me, OK, talking about protecting myself under no circumstance. 281 00:18:06,670 --> 00:18:12,130 After the recordings, John Rogers pleads guilty to one count of wire fraud, but 282 00:18:12,130 --> 00:18:15,650 hopes his cooperation will earn him some points in sentencing. 283 00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:20,350 But Rogers can't seem to help himself from double -crossing people that give 284 00:18:20,350 --> 00:18:21,350 their trust. 285 00:18:21,850 --> 00:18:24,630 John Rogers and Doug Allen are similar in this way. 286 00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:27,310 They both agreed to cooperate with the government at one point. 287 00:18:27,730 --> 00:18:33,310 Doug Allen, rather than cooperating, actually defrauded the FBI by becoming a 288 00:18:33,310 --> 00:18:34,310 double agent. 289 00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:38,030 John Rogers just kept defrauding new victims. 290 00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:41,470 So that was John. For every one step forward, it was two steps back. 291 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:46,210 He went back to all the basics. He would continue to forged items, bats, balls, 292 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:50,370 gloves, that sort of thing, because it doesn't take much. You know, the skill 293 00:18:50,370 --> 00:18:52,470 a Sharpie, that's all you need. 294 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:58,260 new fraudulent activity, all of his cooperation went down the drain. 295 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,080 By the time Rogers faces a judge, his guilty plea to one count of wire fraud 296 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,260 earns him 12 years in prison. 297 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,360 George Demas has a price to pay as well. He tracks down his Babe Ruth bat, and 298 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:16,240 the buyer generously agrees to sell the bat back to him for a price much less 299 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:17,780 than its believed market value. 300 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,040 Demas' other investments with Rodgers, hundreds of thousands of dollars, are 301 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,680 lost. But according to Rodgers, not lost forever. 302 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:28,820 George will be paid, every guy. 303 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:33,160 That's one thing I want viewers to know. Let me tell you, John Rodgers can't be 304 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,800 defeated. That may sound arrogant and dubious. 305 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,780 The old John Rodgers could, but me being now clean and sober, having a clear 306 00:19:39,780 --> 00:19:44,000 head, realizing right from wrong, following God's will instead of my own 307 00:19:44,420 --> 00:19:48,570 And when I come out... It was bigger and better than we ever did. There's no 308 00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:50,870 doubt about it. Some do have their doubts. 309 00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:57,290 The judge handed down a $23 .5 million restitution on him of 26 known victims, 310 00:19:57,390 --> 00:20:00,210 but the word is there were a lot more. 311 00:20:00,430 --> 00:20:02,770 It's just a lot of these people didn't want to go to the trouble because they 312 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:04,370 thought, I'm never getting this money back. 313 00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,570 I'm not even going to bother. 314 00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:10,490 We did collect a few items that were authentic or that they do have some 315 00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:11,870 that we are able to obtain. 316 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,500 What we're going to do is attempt to sell those items through legitimate 317 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:20,100 houses to try to lower down the loss amount, the restitution amount. 318 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,680 Unfortunately, it's not going to make these people all whole. 319 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:29,020 George Brace's legacy will also never be whole again. The government arranges to 320 00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:33,080 sell what's left of the collection to various buyers, but the family is left 321 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,080 empty -handed. 322 00:20:34,270 --> 00:20:37,790 Rogers never pays them the nearly million dollars he still owes them for 323 00:20:37,790 --> 00:20:41,950 photos. And to add insult to injury, they never even receive a complete 324 00:20:41,950 --> 00:20:44,150 collection of the digital copies he promised. 325 00:20:44,550 --> 00:20:50,490 Part of this whole tragedy, I believe, is that a part of baseball, I believe, 326 00:20:50,590 --> 00:20:52,090 history is missing. 327 00:20:52,290 --> 00:20:57,790 It's devastating to the family because it was part of my grandfather's legacy 328 00:20:57,790 --> 00:21:00,530 and, in essence, our family's legacy as well. 329 00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:02,550 And this technically was... 330 00:21:02,750 --> 00:21:04,410 It should have been my aunt's retirement. 331 00:21:04,890 --> 00:21:10,970 So it's just been very hard to feel so taken advantage of. 332 00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:16,470 I just don't know how someone could be so selfish and cruel. 333 00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:22,750 Next on American Greed, Dr. Larry Bates sells books and DVDs claiming that the 334 00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:27,590 Bible shines a light on how to prepare for the coming financial apocalypse. The 335 00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:29,950 Bible is very clear. It says if you don't work, you don't eat. 336 00:21:30,410 --> 00:21:32,670 But his investors are left in darkness. 337 00:21:33,250 --> 00:21:37,570 It was tragic, just to be totally honest with you. The stories that came out at 338 00:21:37,570 --> 00:21:39,130 trial were heartbreaking. 339 00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:55,070 Thank you for calling 340 00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:58,590 FAMC -IRN. If you know the extension of the... 341 00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:10,520 Executive office, this is Kinsey. In May 2013, a woman in Texas records a 342 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,580 conversation between her and the Memphis, Tennessee office of First 343 00:22:14,580 --> 00:22:16,320 Monetary Consultants. 344 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,520 Is this a business? 345 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,860 I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. 346 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:27,120 In 2010 and 2011, she sent the company $400 ,000 to buy a stash of gold Swiss 347 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,880 francs, but hasn't received a single coin. 348 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,500 I've been waiting for over three years now. 349 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:33,840 Imagine yourself. 350 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:40,080 Having called the company in good faith and sold all of the inheritance and 351 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,760 everything that you had saved for years, and then all of a sudden they never 352 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,940 call you again, imagine if it was you. What would you do? 353 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,560 She receives an unconvincing answer. 354 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,080 Okay, well, I would wait to speak with Dr. Bates. He's the one who can do 355 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,080 something about that. 356 00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:00,880 Mr. Bates was actually a very well -respected individual in the community. 357 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,600 had been a banker. He had been with the Tennessee legislature. 358 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,760 But he was best known for the selling of precious metals. 359 00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:12,980 He started that business in the early 80s. 360 00:23:13,390 --> 00:23:18,750 and in fact had developed a good reputation of performing in the 361 00:23:19,010 --> 00:23:23,870 It's a reputation built by writing books, appearing on television and 362 00:23:23,870 --> 00:23:29,590 producing educational DVDs. And welcome back to the special briefing on economic 363 00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:33,230 and political crisis. The industry is quite straightforward. 364 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,580 Larry Bates and his company, First American Monetary Consultants, simply 365 00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:43,140 the link between individuals who want to buy gold and companies that want to 366 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:43,739 sell it. 367 00:23:43,740 --> 00:23:48,140 You give him money, he would purchase the gold, and he would get the gold, and 368 00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:49,240 then he would ship it to you. 369 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,760 Actually, a very simple transaction that goes on every day. 370 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,760 But this company isn't concerned with the every day. 371 00:23:57,230 --> 00:24:01,250 As he demonstrates in his promotional materials, it's focused squarely on the 372 00:24:01,250 --> 00:24:02,250 final days. 373 00:24:02,410 --> 00:24:04,330 His target market was Christians. 374 00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:08,910 And he talked about how it's predicted that troubled times are coming. And he 375 00:24:08,910 --> 00:24:13,110 would talk about how the Bible advocates for the importance of gold. 376 00:24:13,530 --> 00:24:16,950 Gold and silver is money. Anything else is credit. 377 00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:19,590 It's been that way for 5 ,000 years. 378 00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:23,630 Bates puts his image and name on books, gives seminars. 379 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,140 sends out newsletters, and appears on Christian broadcasts nationwide. 380 00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:32,820 He even starts his own radio syndicate, the Information Radio Network. 381 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,360 What is the world coming to? 382 00:24:36,220 --> 00:24:39,940 Well, a large part of the world is coming to news and views on the 383 00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:43,800 Radio Network every weekday afternoon from 1 to 3 Eastern. 384 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,780 The end of the pitch, be it on TV, through the radio, or in books, is 385 00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:52,240 same. Buy precious metals and buy them through... 386 00:24:52,540 --> 00:24:53,680 F -A -M -C. 387 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,580 Those of you watching the video, you'll see a number on your screen. You can 388 00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:01,880 call and get a free economic package. 389 00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:06,320 But Bates offers more than just economic resources to investors. 390 00:25:06,780 --> 00:25:11,520 He reveals the tools to protect their assets, some of which can be found in 391 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:12,520 storage shed. 392 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,480 There's a little bit of a conspiracy aspect of what he advocated. He talked 393 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,420 about, in some of the literature, something called midnight gardening, for 394 00:25:19,420 --> 00:25:23,660 example, as a way to hide your assets from particularly the government. 395 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,380 And what he advocated was getting a piece of PVC pipe and putting your 396 00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:32,840 metals inside the pipe, sealing it up, digging a hole someplace safe, maybe 397 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,660 backyard, several feet down, burying the PVC pipe, then putting a piece of 398 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:41,360 metal, like a metal bar on top of that. And so if somebody came looking for it 399 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,880 with a metal detector, for example, they'd find the metal bar, but not the 400 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:45,880 pipe buried below. 401 00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:51,780 Larry Bates was selling more than we're just investor in precious metals. 402 00:25:52,330 --> 00:25:57,510 He was selling really a way of life. And there were a lot of people who bought 403 00:25:57,510 --> 00:26:02,130 into that the country was heading in the wrong direction, that it was facing 404 00:26:02,130 --> 00:26:03,590 economic turmoil. 405 00:26:03,970 --> 00:26:08,610 Many of these people were religious, and they viewed Larry Bates as a religious 406 00:26:08,610 --> 00:26:12,870 person who would not steal their money. He doesn't just seem like he won't 407 00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:18,190 steal. As seminar footage proves, he'll stand on stage and actually pray for his 408 00:26:18,190 --> 00:26:21,640 investors. I'm going to be obedient right now because I feel the Lord 409 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,660 to pray over every one of you for a spirit of boldness. 410 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,320 Let's bow your heads while we pray. Father, in the name of Jesus. 411 00:26:30,580 --> 00:26:37,380 She and I went to Israel, which was a dream for her. She always dreamed of 412 00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:41,580 going back to, you know, tour the Holy Land. 413 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:45,000 Joshua Benson's mother, Lynn, is a devout Christian. 414 00:26:45,450 --> 00:26:49,750 And like many Christians across the country, she hears a voice crying out in 415 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:53,290 wilderness. Barry Bates on the Information Radio Network. 416 00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:59,150 We would listen to the radio show. It was called Unraveling the New World 417 00:26:59,510 --> 00:27:04,510 Across the nation and around the world, welcome to Unraveling the New World 418 00:27:04,510 --> 00:27:07,390 Order. It's live talk at its best. 419 00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:13,010 It seemed very sound. It was, okay, here's how the system works. 420 00:27:13,570 --> 00:27:18,220 Here's... how you can be wise about it, and it was very biblically based, so it 421 00:27:18,220 --> 00:27:19,220 sounded trustworthy. 422 00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:26,360 From her home in Denver, Len Benson sends FAMC $50 ,000, essentially her 423 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:27,360 life savings. 424 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,220 Joshua says she expects her gold to arrive in a matter of weeks. 425 00:27:32,540 --> 00:27:35,360 It doesn't. Less than half is delivered. 426 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,160 But the delivery method is worth its own weight in gold, a visit from Dr. 427 00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:41,380 Bates himself. 428 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,020 I remember him coming to the house. 429 00:27:43,710 --> 00:27:50,050 opening the package, delivering it, and, you know, I was kind of honored. Wow, 430 00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:51,870 he's in our house. He's here. 431 00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:56,130 The personal touch only affirms their belief in their Christian neighbor. 432 00:27:56,490 --> 00:28:01,690 It definitely came off as honorable and trustworthy, and we 433 00:28:01,690 --> 00:28:04,070 found out otherwise. 434 00:28:04,510 --> 00:28:10,090 When American Greed returns, more than 300 investors follow the light and end 435 00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:11,090 in the wilderness. 436 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,440 In order to make an order with FAMC, you had to provide full payment up front 437 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,760 for your entire order. 438 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,280 So your money was gone. As soon as it made it to them, it was gone. 439 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,640 Larry Bage may believe in more than just an economic apocalypse on the horizon. 440 00:28:27,940 --> 00:28:31,580 Hear about it at AmericanGreed .CNBC .com. 441 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:34,160 Want inside information from the show? 442 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,520 Join the Greed social network. 443 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:39,600 Like us on American Greed's Facebook page. 444 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,240 We'll be right back. 445 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:54,120 More and more clients of FAMC are beginning to discover Larry Bates may 446 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,760 their best interest at heart. 447 00:28:56,110 --> 00:29:00,450 But his biggest lie is that he's using their money to buy gold. 448 00:29:00,850 --> 00:29:03,730 The customers are paying their money in advance of getting the coins. 449 00:29:03,950 --> 00:29:07,550 And so the money was coming in, but it was being spent on other things. 450 00:29:07,810 --> 00:29:13,070 By 2008, for example, there was below $15 million in unfulfilled orders. 451 00:29:13,450 --> 00:29:15,430 And by the next year, it was like $23 million. 452 00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:19,470 The people that we were dealing with, obviously, were folks who waited the 30 453 00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:23,890 60 business days, didn't get their coins, and instead started getting a 454 00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:27,650 series of excuses for why. their coins weren't being delivered. And that ranged 455 00:29:27,650 --> 00:29:32,650 from problems with the U .S. Mint to problems finding the quality of coins 456 00:29:32,650 --> 00:29:36,510 Dr. Bates wanted them to have, problems with the coins being held up in customs. 457 00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:38,770 There were European coins coming from overseas. 458 00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:40,710 None of that was true. 459 00:29:40,930 --> 00:29:44,950 These people were not looking to get rich fast, weren't looking to have their 460 00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:49,210 investment doubled. These people were looking to have a safe spot to park 461 00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:53,790 money. But despite the outpouring of faith, Larry Bates doesn't count his 462 00:29:53,790 --> 00:30:00,620 blessings. He spends them. Because of the collapse in 2007 and with gold and 463 00:30:00,620 --> 00:30:01,860 silver prices rising. 464 00:30:02,590 --> 00:30:06,890 More and more customers started investing with FAMC, and there was a 465 00:30:06,890 --> 00:30:11,770 of money that came in. And then starting in 2008, Larry Bates started peeling 466 00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:16,110 out thousands and thousands of dollars and pushing it to his own personal 467 00:30:16,110 --> 00:30:17,029 investment account. 468 00:30:17,030 --> 00:30:22,470 Larry Bates took about $2 .5 million in customer money out of FAMC's primary 469 00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:26,270 bank account. And over a period of time, he took that $2 .5 million and made 470 00:30:26,270 --> 00:30:28,650 about $5 million off of it in his trading. 471 00:30:29,550 --> 00:30:34,750 But instead of putting that money back into FAMC to buy precious metals for his 472 00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:39,050 customers, he took it out and put it in his own personal account and used that 473 00:30:39,050 --> 00:30:43,890 to build the 11 ,000 -square -foot mansion that's about an hour and a half 474 00:30:43,890 --> 00:30:46,250 outside of Memphis where he and his wife lived. 475 00:30:46,530 --> 00:30:51,590 And the fruits of his labor don't only go to Larry Bates. He provides shelter 476 00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:52,950 for his children as well. 477 00:30:53,270 --> 00:30:57,630 Their son Chuck and his family was virtually right next door. 478 00:30:58,250 --> 00:31:04,110 This was on a 300 -acre piece of property that was located in a very 479 00:31:04,110 --> 00:31:05,110 of West Tennessee. 480 00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:09,010 A perfect place for midnight gardening to flourish. 481 00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:14,670 Bates' younger son, Robert, also uses the proceeds to buy a house of his own 482 00:31:14,670 --> 00:31:20,230 share with his new bride and Larry Bates' secretary, Kinsey Brown Bates. 483 00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:24,330 while waiting for society to collapse, the Bates family uses their client's 484 00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:26,050 money for earthly pleasures. 485 00:31:26,650 --> 00:31:30,810 Generally, it was just sort of a luxurious lifestyle for Larry Bates and 486 00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:34,670 family. They were spending well more than they were taking in as a profit 487 00:31:34,670 --> 00:31:40,870 margin. Over the course of the 10 years approximately that we focused on, there 488 00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:43,830 were over $2 million in credit card charges for various things. 489 00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:47,690 And members of the family played their role in the family fraud. 490 00:31:48,170 --> 00:31:53,370 Chuck and Robert had been with the FAMC since the early 2000s. Kinsey Bates 491 00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:54,370 answered the phone. 492 00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:57,690 She... would talk to a lot of the customers. 493 00:31:57,930 --> 00:32:02,330 She took many of the calls of customers crying and pleading for their money. 494 00:32:02,550 --> 00:32:05,310 And many times she would just give an excuse. 495 00:32:06,050 --> 00:32:08,770 These phone messages are from 2009. 496 00:32:09,390 --> 00:32:13,970 You have seven calendar days to get gold or refund to him. He's a police officer 497 00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:17,270 and will issue a fraud complaint and you will get a personal visit. 498 00:32:18,010 --> 00:32:21,890 This one talked about a $50 ,000 check that had been sent in four months ago, 499 00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:23,710 and the next step was to get an attorney. 500 00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:28,890 This individual, again, for 5 -8 in February 2010, is saying he's going to 501 00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:29,890 the attorney general. 502 00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:34,330 You know, something else that they would do that allowed this to continue for so 503 00:32:34,330 --> 00:32:39,790 long is that people would be complaining about, give me my coins, I want them. 504 00:32:40,390 --> 00:32:43,330 And they would say, well, look, this is a perfect time. 505 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,480 for you to sell your gold coins and get into silver. 506 00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:51,260 We see that silver is getting ready to skyrocket. 507 00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:55,780 It's the exact pitch Lynn Benson hears, much to her dismay. 508 00:32:55,980 --> 00:33:02,560 They called her to say, hey, we kind of forecast that the price of silver 509 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:08,280 is going to really go up. So if you exchange your gold for silver. 510 00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:13,750 When the price goes up, you can sell it back to us and make a profit. 511 00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:19,650 Benson drives from Denver to an FAMC satellite office in Fort Collins, 512 00:33:19,890 --> 00:33:26,470 with the $15 ,000 of gold she had received, and gives it back to FAMC, 513 00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:27,730 exchange it for silver. 514 00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:32,770 At this point in her life, with her health deteriorating and her prospects 515 00:33:32,770 --> 00:33:35,010 fading, she needs the money. 516 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:42,260 The 2008 crash, she got laid off and started doing freelancing, graphic 517 00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:46,560 that she studied, and in copywriting, just looking for freelance work. 518 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:52,520 But she didn't find much of it, and this was basically what she had to live off 519 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,940 of, but she didn't have access to it. 520 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,700 As the months go by, she sees no coins and no silver lining. 521 00:34:01,310 --> 00:34:05,270 She got to a point saying, I don't care if it's silver or gold. I just need my 522 00:34:05,270 --> 00:34:07,650 money. You know, I'm losing my house. I need it fast. 523 00:34:08,270 --> 00:34:12,790 Her house falls into foreclosure. And without access to her money, she can't 524 00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:17,409 afford to pay the premiums on her $100 ,000 life insurance policy created for 525 00:34:17,409 --> 00:34:19,310 her three children and loses it. 526 00:34:19,530 --> 00:34:20,530 Had to file bankruptcy. 527 00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:25,310 Had to downscale twice after losing the house. 528 00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:30,489 She moved into a one -bedroom apartment and then even couldn't keep that up. 529 00:34:30,909 --> 00:34:36,850 I had to move from the one -bedroom apartment into just a room in somebody's 530 00:34:36,850 --> 00:34:42,150 house that was renting a room. The stress of all that, plus filing 531 00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:49,290 plus losing her life insurance, you could visibly see it taking a toll on 532 00:34:49,290 --> 00:34:50,449 her body and her health. 533 00:34:51,350 --> 00:34:55,810 Suffering from multiple debilitating illnesses that only multiply under the 534 00:34:55,810 --> 00:35:00,210 stress, she is desperate, and she lets the Bates family know about it. 535 00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:03,520 That is cold, rude, and uncaring. 536 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,880 Try moving out of your home when you're so weak you can hardly open a jar. 537 00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:10,160 I guess that's no big deal to you. 538 00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:15,380 All of you have ignored my situation, which shows you don't give a rip. 539 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,480 And that's what surprises me the most, is that there was no sympathy, no 540 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:27,300 apology, just very... Almost everyone that we 541 00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:30,260 encountered as a victim in the case, 542 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,440 heard about FAMC through some sort of religious programming. 543 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:40,720 They prayed on people that were truly good Christian people and have 544 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:47,140 faith that the Bates were trying to do the best for them. The stories of how 545 00:35:47,140 --> 00:35:50,520 loss of this money impacted folks were just heartbreaking. 546 00:35:50,820 --> 00:35:55,520 I mean, it was everything from inability to pay for medical care for themselves 547 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,160 or loved ones. 548 00:35:58,540 --> 00:36:04,760 One story came from a woman whose stepdaughter came down with cancer and 549 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,420 have the insurance to pay for the chemotherapy. 550 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,620 Larry Bates was well aware of the harm that he was inflicting. He was well 551 00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:17,380 of the need that many people had for this money. 552 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,180 They're telling them, they're emailing them, yeah, they know. 553 00:36:22,220 --> 00:36:25,180 These just make me shake. 554 00:36:31,150 --> 00:36:33,590 And this was when we took her off of life support. 555 00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:40,530 Len Benson passes just weeks before Joshua's wedding in May 2015. 556 00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:42,910 Yeah, she suffered. 557 00:36:43,530 --> 00:36:48,910 The stress of all that, plus filing bankruptcy, plus losing her life 558 00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:52,190 all took a toll on her body at once. 559 00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:56,590 She wanted, you know, to take care of us. 560 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,260 you know, pass on an inheritance to her kids and grandkids. 561 00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:07,060 She looked forward so much to having grandkids, and unfortunately was not 562 00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:09,500 to meet them. 563 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,980 All Joshua can do is wonder why it had to be this way. 564 00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:20,400 Just the cold, you know, writing off is what really, 565 00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:24,060 you know, is disturbing. 566 00:37:25,230 --> 00:37:26,570 And I would just like to know why. 567 00:37:27,170 --> 00:37:30,590 A lot of investors want to know why, and their number is increasing. 568 00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:36,550 When American Greed returns, a locked storage unit, a pair of bolt cutters 569 00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:37,428 through a gate. 570 00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:39,370 What is the Bates family hiding? 571 00:37:40,130 --> 00:37:44,450 Obviously, it was very important to them to cut the lock off the storage unit to 572 00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:45,530 get in to get their stuff. 573 00:37:56,970 --> 00:38:00,990 Our investigation actually was initiated because there was a Shelby County 574 00:38:00,990 --> 00:38:07,190 Sheriff's deputy that was contacted by a victim that reported that they had been 575 00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:11,550 victimized by the Bates family. And they contacted us to let us know about the 576 00:38:11,550 --> 00:38:17,890 fraud. The U .S. Postal Inspection Service and the FBI combined to identify 577 00:38:17,890 --> 00:38:22,370 victims across the country for a total loss of more than $21 million. 578 00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:28,830 It's enough to put Larry Bates in front of a jury to face 46 charges, including 579 00:38:28,830 --> 00:38:30,310 wire fraud and conspiracy. 580 00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:34,970 Chuck, Bob, and Kinsey faced multiple of the same charges as well. 581 00:38:35,370 --> 00:38:39,510 He pled not guilty, so did everyone else, and we proceeded to trial. It was 582 00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:40,810 about a five -week trial. 583 00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:45,570 We put on probably 40 to 50 victims from around the country. 584 00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:50,490 But not one of the victims seems to elicit an ounce of remorse from the 585 00:38:50,490 --> 00:38:53,400 family. There was absolutely no emotion whatsoever. 586 00:38:54,620 --> 00:39:01,160 They could tell the most horrific and heartfelt story, and there was no 587 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,540 expression on any of the defendants' faces. 588 00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:09,300 Of course, according to the Bates family, none of this is their fault to 589 00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:14,460 with. Larry Bates, his defense was that it was just a bad business. The business 590 00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:16,600 just went bad, and it didn't work out. 591 00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:27,080 What the entire family expected or was hoping for was some type of divine 592 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,080 intervention. 593 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,420 To the end, they felt that somehow that they were going to be delivered and that 594 00:39:33,420 --> 00:39:35,420 a not guilty verdict was going to come back. 595 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,740 We're the victims of a John conspiracy. These are totally bogus allegations. 596 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:44,820 They just need to come and confess their sins because let me just tell you, 597 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:45,840 God's going to deal with them. 598 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,460 If the Divine does intervene with the jury, it's not on behalf of the Bates 599 00:39:50,460 --> 00:39:55,840 family. They came back in less than a day, and so it was gratifying to us that 600 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,780 they heard the proof and were able to process it and come to a fairly quick 601 00:39:59,780 --> 00:40:04,820 conclusion of guilty on all counts as to all of the defendants in the case. 602 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,820 Despite a clean sweep of guilty verdicts, all four defendants are 603 00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:13,960 bond before sentencing. But they don't bide their time while awaiting judgment. 604 00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:18,220 The Bates family always professed the government would be coming after their 605 00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:22,300 money. And this time, they're actually right, when authorities make an 606 00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:24,360 interesting discovery during a search. 607 00:40:24,820 --> 00:40:31,100 They came across a lease to a storage bin here in Memphis, Tennessee. 608 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:38,160 This was very late in the day, and they actually placed a lock on the storage 609 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,320 facility. It's obviously gated, so you hear in a second that there's Bob and 610 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,320 Kenzie pulling up. 611 00:40:44,660 --> 00:40:49,820 Once they get in, we think that they realize that there have been locks 612 00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:55,640 on at least one of the units at that point. And so Bob makes a phone call and 613 00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:02,200 subsequently walks up to the front entrance. He had called a friend of his 614 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,540 asked that friend to bring a pair of bolt cutters up to the storage unit. And 615 00:41:06,540 --> 00:41:09,720 here you see in the clip that he's starting to bring out bags and what look 616 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:10,920 be suitcases. 617 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,100 from that storage unit and putting them inside of the SUV. 618 00:41:15,540 --> 00:41:20,400 We don't know what was in the bag, but obviously it was very important to them 619 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,080 to get to the bags and cut the lock off the storage unit to get in to get their 620 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,520 stuff. And so our position to the court was that there was something they 621 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:34,340 wanted, like the coins or potentially bulk currency, that they wanted for 622 00:41:34,340 --> 00:41:35,340 themselves. 623 00:41:35,530 --> 00:41:39,190 Although the government believes the Bates family may have stashed some money 624 00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:44,850 away, there is still a reckoning to face. On September 5th, 2017, Larry 625 00:41:44,850 --> 00:41:49,870 sentenced to 262 months, almost 22 years in prison. 626 00:41:50,370 --> 00:41:55,650 Chuck and Robert Bates each receive more than 12 years, and Kinsey Bates is hit 627 00:41:55,650 --> 00:41:56,650 with more than five. 628 00:41:57,250 --> 00:42:01,190 Appeals from the four defendants are pending, and they all neglect to respond 629 00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:02,970 requests to speak to American Reed. 630 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,980 But in poor health, Larry Bates may never breathe free air again. 631 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,260 However, the others probably will. And the U .S. Attorney's Office is 632 00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:17,780 that if there is hidden money out there, it will see the light of day. We did 633 00:42:17,780 --> 00:42:23,620 determine that, at least in what we could find through the paperwork, that 634 00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:27,540 coins were purchased than what was delivered. 635 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:34,150 I think when you look at the big picture, There are precious metals out 636 00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:35,730 and I'm convinced that we will find them.